1. What Do You Think Makes Good Poetry?


alliyah - hmm good question; I think mostly what makes "good poetry" is pretty relative?That's true. but there are some things that concretely make poetry good tooAlso true.. so for me I like to see poetry that makes me think - that has meaning beyond the page & significance -> I like poetry that makes me look at words and phrases and feelings in new ways too. --> Yes, me too. So poetic devices, and significance... and I like poems that connect with me that have something to say that speaks to me on a personal levelThat does seem pretty relavtive but there are concrete tools you can use to speak to every reader -> by using emotive descriptive and specific language. - > either like communicating an entertaining story that stirs my emotions or that speaks to the human condition in someway. 

I tend to like poetry that is also consistent in form or at least intentional in form too.I've noticed <3

Tuckster - I think good poetry is subjective I like that <3. What I consider to be the best poem ever written someone else might think is a poor poem. [do you think there are any objective qualities that just universally make for good poetry though? yeah, I'd say that imagery, metaphorical language, strong vocabulary, and a clear and deep meaning universally will create a good poem, but there can always be debate about whether a meaning is actually clear and deep, etc., if that makes sense mhmm that makes sense!] Some things that make me consider a poem "good" are strong use of imagery, metaphors/similes/personification, and a clear and deep meaning. <- oh clarity of meaning is one I missed, and I totally agree with; a poem can be "beautiful" but if I have no clue what it means, I don't think it is very good at a communication level] I like poems that I'll think about and ponder for a while after I've read it, something that sticks with me and changes my life in some way or another. True.

Tgirly-- I think there are many parts as to what makes a poem good. I think usually it involves an emotional connection mhmm I think for me too.Like sister like sister <3 of some sort, it /makes the reader feel something [or is good at faking it]. Usually this is done through the images or scenarios the poem presents, or the conflicts it analyzes. Specificity of detail<3 YES 100% helps it to communicate these emotions, but there's also a need for an amount of technical know-how, since the flow, line breaks, and musicality of the poem can in themselves spark awe in the reader, or be signs of a well-written or good poem.That's sooo true.this is an awesome way to put things! 

Intresting. I note that you guys wrote that baiscally you like poetry that makes you think, or you have a special emotional connection to...and good prose? A bonus.
Huh. Poetry's in the eye of the beholder (; 
2. Prose vrs Meaning?

I'm not sure I'm getting what you mean by prose in this context? could you say a little more about the question?
 Do you think prose is more important in poetry then meaning? Or do you think a poems meaning is more 
what do you mean by prose in that context? :) Like word choice or form?Yep. ah
Besure to state why you believe as you do as well <3

I tend to link up "prose" with "prose-long-form-narrative writing" like novels and such, but if prose means structure in this context, I think ideally the prose compliments the meaning and the meaning compliments the prose 
Though if I had to choose one over the other I'd say meaning is more important, because it's like the essence of what the point of the piece is, but ideally your prose compliments the meaning. And you can't communicate meaning if you don't use technique. It's a bit like asking if the chicken or the egg is more important for me. 

I think that making a decision to break conventional prose "rules" is a way of using prose intentionally too -> and is a way that communicates meaning. lowercasing "i" is a very common example of this.

ie. in some of shakespeare's sonnets he intentionally breaks the conventional prose-structure by changing the meter of a line -> most of the time this is actually emphasizing a certain point. I wouldn't say he is valuing meaning over prose in that instance, but rather using prose (by breaking prose-conventional-rules) to communicate and compliment meaning. :) 

I think both are necessary in a strong poem. The word choice should support the meaning and can be used as an important tool in poetry. For example, if a poem is about anger and resentment, shorter lines can communicate that well in some cases. As a primarily prose writer, one of the things I find most difficult about poetry is communicating a deep meaning and storyline in a short amount of words. That makes word choice absolutely crucial in a poem. In a way, they are inseparable; the word choice should help to clarify the meaning, both with connotations and denotations, and can serve several purposes in poetry

(I'm not really sure this answers the question, but this was the line of thinking the question led me down<3). I think a poem's form should in some way support the meaning of the poem. I think a lot of forms do this in an unconscious or hidden way, because they help the author focus their thoughts. Creativity often works best with limits(;[ohhh really muahahaha controversial], because they get the writer or artist thinking outside of the box or thinking of different, new ways to accomplish old tasks. In this regard, a highly structured format, such as a haiku or sonnet can help focus the writer into coming up with different phrases or descriptions true!, while also creating something that sounds really lovely in lyrical. However, I think some types of structures can lead the author into using shortcuts for solving the additional limitations that end up being their own version of old, well-tread paths. This is most commonly seen when the rhyme scheme leads the author to use really simplistic words that are often rhymed with each other, like "cat" and "bat" or "sad" and "mad" yep yep yep! or something along those lines. It doesn't feel like a creative, new solution to an old problem; it feels like an old solution to an old problem, and in that sense, the author isn't really capitalizing on the tool of limitation to spark new ways of thinking. In which case, the meaning isn't exactly compromized, but the reader's understanding of that meaning is going to be pretty shallow, so the message is still watered down.Agreed on all of this pretty much.

So baisically what ye'all are saying is that the meaning of a poem is nothing without the prose/structure, and vice versa. 

3. What Are Some Important Distinctions Between Poetry & Novels(besides the obvious ones? 

this has been a question for me for a lot of years.. hmm 

More and more often lately I'm thinking poetry can be anything. 

Novels must communicate narrative through words organized in a grammatically acceptable structure, often in some sort of linear structure that mimics our lived experience of "story" it most often has characters and conflict.

whereas poetry doesn't have to communicate narrative, it doesn't have to obey any structural conventions, it doesn't have to use words it doens't have to mimic our lives or have characters. It just needs to communicate. period. the sound the water makes against the beach is poetry in the middle of july. the sign that commands me to stop at the end of my street is poetry. the weight of gravity telling the leaves to fall is poetry. poetry is boundless. <<ironically this is v poetic lol[not all people, or even most people would agree with that definition though I think]Ido (: I believe Nature is poetry in motion. 
I have the same problem when I try to define art. it's just everything almost.

And just because everything can be poetry, doesn't mean everything is /good/ poetry. (;

I think generally when we speak of poetry we mean literary poetry though / and that I think has more expectations that are more in line with what Tuck's talking about.

this doesn't seem like it should be a difficult question to answer, but it is. Throughout the past few years, I've been learning that poetry is not what we're taught in elementary school -- short lines in stanzas of 4 that rhyme with each other. There are very few rules in poetry, which makes it both fun and difficult to write. I think the goals of poetry and novels are different. Novels have the goal of communicating first and foremost a story, a plotline, a series of events.That's a purpose. Poetry has the goal of communicating first and foremost a meaning. I think some poetry communicates an unmeaning though too what do you mean by unmeaning?/ which is kind of fun. [thinking of captainjack's poetry in that sense] 
I would have a hard time explaining what I mean by unmeaning, but I think some poetry communicates that there is no meaning within the poem which is an unmeaning. OH Anti-Poetry, have you heard of Anti-poetry? some of that is sort of what I mean! I have not heard of that!]  I'm always planning on doing a modern-poetry sort of workshop with some more contemporary anti-poetry stuff where you purposely try to break the "rules" of poetry. but I have just never gotten around to it. :)Why am I not surprized lol. Jack was going to try to do something a bit like this yesterday, but was sick unfortunately): <3

 So we can all agree that-
 1. We all like poetry that speaks to us on some deep, or emotional way. Oh yeah!
 2. Prose and meaning compliment each other. Yep!
3. Poetry always has a purpouse, one clear meaning..Even if that meaning is meaningless. [oop I don't agree with that one - I don't think the meaning is ever meaningless tho but maybe that's a semantic argument]
Am I correct?

:] Yep
 on 1 & 2! :) 
 Now...What are some things you can do/some things you do to make your poetry stand out to a potential audiance?  
 
 What are some ways that meaning and prose compliment each other? 
 What are some techniques you use to balance your prose and meaning? 


hmm good questions - I'd love to hear your answers too Ever.Later my dear, later. 

1) stand out > by using unique poetic devices and speaking from the heart
2) how do prose & meaning compliment each other -> I can only think of like specific examples of how this happens rather than a general rule. In a poem about brevity [meaning] keep the poem short [prose]. keep your prose conventions from distracting from meaning by being consistent and only breaking rules when it actualy benefits the meaning of a poem. :) 
3) I'm not sure what this would mean.
 Let me see if I can rephrase that...When your writing poetry what are so things you do to make your meaning and prose compliment each other. I try to obey conventional prose rules unless breaking them would benefit the meaning and then also am concious of prose conventions/tricks/techniques that enhance and emphasize meaning -> like adding a line break to emphasize and important transition or phrase -> or keeping minimalistic punctation in a poem that needs quick narrative flow for the meaning tobe communicated. :) (: